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Enrico Bortolato 
lunedì, 8 gennaio 2007, 19:15
Trovo che il confronto tra queste due opere fatto da Fabiola sia condivisibile. Volevo comunque aggiungere un ulteriore elemento di differenziazione che è secondo me importantissimo.
Ritengo che l'opera del Giogione sia più innovativa.
La Venere di Tiziano sta all'interno di un palazzo nobiliare e il modo di rappresentarlo è tipicamente compreso negli schemi del canone rinascimentale: es. prospettiva.
La Venere di Giorgione invece la trovo moderna perchè è ambientata in mezzo ai campi, in un paesaggio rurale non idealizzato come in molti quadri del rinasciento toscano che ritraggono giardini artefatti.. E' un paesaggio realistico, dentro cui si intravvedono elementi popolari come il casone, la tipica casa del contadino veneto di allora.
Trovo quindi quest'opera anticipatrice dei paesaggi realistici ottocenteschi.
Riportando le parole del Professore Francalanci : " La pittura veneta ha inventato l'ora del giorno, la natura. Non ritrae più cose astratte ma reali".




Emma Barone 
martedì, 2 gennaio 2007, 17:13
La scena, collocata all'interno di un'ampia e fastosa camera da letto, vede al centro Venere, raffigurata nuda in tutto il suo splendore, distesa su un letto con un cagnolino ai piedi.
Provocante e nuovo è l'atteggiamento spavaldo della donna, ch volge lo sguardo verso lo spettatore, perfettamente consapevole della propria nudità e della propria bellezza. Sul fondo della stanza due donne stanno rovistando in una cassapanca per scegliere gli abiti ch la dea indosserà.
Tiziano utilizza al meglio le potenzialità espressive del colore, giocando sull'accostamento per contrasto per esaltare al massimo alcuni dettagli. Il rivestimento rosso dei materassi con i ricami a fiori viene accostato, ad esempio, al bianco caldo del lenzuolo e dei guanciali. Allo stasso modo, il verde del pesante tendaggio in alto fa risaltare il luminoso corpo dalle carni dorate, il bel viso e i capelli biondo-rame fluenti sulle spalle.
L'opera, costruita con grande complessità compositiva, è caratterizzata da un doppio andamento: quello bidimensionale del primo piano e quello tridimensionale dello sfondo (anche se il prof. ci ha insegnato che la prospettiva è il più grande inganno percettivo perchè non tiene conto che noi viviamo in una realtà che non è oclidea perchè non ci son linee rette, on ci son convergenze all'infinito, perchè l'infinito non esiste. Perchè l'infinito è un punto di vista, è cioè un'opinione).
In primo piano il dipinto si sviluppa tutto in lunghezza per accompagnare l'allungamento del corpo della Venere sdraiata sul letto.A tale scopo, oltre che per attirare l'attenzione dell'osservatore solo sulla donna, la tenda è stata posta alle spalle della Dea, così da comprimere la scena e caricarla di forte tensione sentimentale.
La veduta d'angolo è sottolineata dalle presenza della donna in piedi che si contrappone in ogni elemento alla figura della Venere.
La stanza comunica con l'ambiente esterno mediante una finestra credo bifora, tipicamente veneziana, che lascia intravedere un cielo dorato al tramonto.





Simone ferraro 
sabato, 30 dicembre 2006, 16:54
Secondo me state dimenticando il fatto più importante: nell'opera di Tiziano (e in chi dopo di lui...) la natura è ridotta ad artificio. Persino la venere non ha più nulla di naturale (come il Prof insegna!). La diatriba Natura/Artificio di Franz Mark a mio parere qui è già cominciata!
Poi come giustamente dice Silvia, gli occhi aperti la dicono lunga sul messaggio trasmesso...




Silvia Zancan 
martedì, 19 dicembre 2006, 13:03
Eheheh hai ragione Davide! L'iconografia è la stessa fra queste veneri, ma non solo, anche la posizione spaziale, il drappo verde, il letto disfatto, i fiori rossi! Ma l'Olympia ha uno sguardo ancora diverso...un diverso messaggio per il suo pubblico borghese al Salon des refusès dove venivano stipati quei quadri indegni e volgari, di quei pittori incapaci di dipingere accademicamente, privi di prospettiva di tonalismo di armonia fra le proporzioni, così inpudici!
E' lo svecchiamento dell'arte, Manet trasporta l'iconografia della venere in un contesto ancora più moderno, reale come una prostituta con le proporzioni disarmoniche (tutt'altro che ideali), come una fotografia in cui il soggetto guarda la macchina perchè è cosciente della sua presenza, è la lezione di Courbet, la realtà è così com'è, nè bella nè brutta.
Se il cane rappresenta la fedeltà il gatto è la donna. L'Olympia non sorride e sfida l'osservatore.
L'artista rivendica la libetrà di dipingere ciò che vuole come vuole, attenzione perchè è il primo barlume dell'autoreferenzialità.
Manet si rifà spesso alle opere classiche, leggi "Il concerto campestre" insieme a "Le déjeuner sur l'herbe", ma quelle non sono scandalose per il pubblico borghese, perchè le donne erano idealizzate, perchè ci si rifaceva alla realtà del '500, perchè le modalità di pittura erano coerenti con il tonalismo veneto, perchè le forme erano sapientemente collocate in uno spazio prospettico preciso.
Come direbbe Francalanci: CORTOCIRCUITO!
Ed inizio della contemporaneità.
Benvenuti.




Davide Zacchello 
lunedì, 18 dicembre 2006, 21:15
Assomiglia anche all'opera di Edouard Manet "Olympia", dove la venere è sostituita da una modella che nella vita reale è una prostituta con ai piedi un gatto nero, ed una serva di colore che le porge un mazzo di fiori.




Fabiola Steffan 
mercoledì, 6 dicembre 2006, 16:25
Ciao Silvia, non avevo notato la particolarità del colore roso, e ora che li osservo bene devo darti ragione, è un aspetto molto importante per capire la diversità dei messaggi che i due autori vogliono tasmettere, come lo sono anche il fatto del tramonto e dell'alba come sfondo.




Silvia Zancan 
martedì, 5 dicembre 2006, 22:56
Ragazzi non dimenticate che Tiziano, nato a Pieve di Cadore, potè trasferirsi presto a Venezia e grazie alle sue doti precoci entrò a far parte della bottega di Giorgione da Castelfranco.
Ecco perchè non solo il soggetto della venere ma anche lo stile tonalista accomuna i due pittori; noterete infatti che non vi sono linee nere o confini netti a dividere gli spazi e le figure (come nella pittura fiorentina), ma dolci passaggi tonali che accompagnano il nostro occhio dai colori sgargianti dei primi piani ai colorini tenui dell'infinito orizzonte...tutto armonicamente costruito.
Come dite voi la sostanziale differenza tra le due veneri sta nel messaggio che trasmettono, tant'è vero che la Venere di Dresda è ritratta al tramonto, nell'attimo in cui questa pudica bellezza sta chiudendo gli occhi, lasciandosi andare perdendo il controllo del suo corpo a favore del sonno. La Venere di Urbino invece è ritratta al momento del risveglio, gli occhi aperti ci fissano consapevoli e ci sfidano a capire se quel letto disfatto ci potrà dire qualcosa di più sulla sua inentità.
Per entrambe il colore rosso sulla sinistra è simbolo di passione, ma una passione molto diversa. :O




Fabiola Steffan 
lunedì, 4 dicembre 2006, 19:53
Grazie Marco, ha proprio capito al volo quello che volevo dire io.
Sono contenta che qualcuno la pensi come me riguardo quest'opera, perchè mole persone non ci vedevano nessun collegamento tra le due Veneri.




Marco Novello 
martedì, 28 novembre 2006, 14:09
Fabiola, hai proprio ragione, i due dipinti sono molto ma molto simili. Questa Venere di Tiziano è accattivante, maliziosa. Donna di città. Città in cui la natura è confinata fuori dalla finestra o al massimo sul balcone, costretta in un misero vaso. Sembra quasi Tiziano abbia voluto sottolineare, emulando Giorgione come la donna, la stessa donna, che prima viveva nella propria intimità, sia cambiata.




Fabiola Steffan 
martedì, 28 novembre 2006, 13:29
Correggetime se sbaglio, ma la Venere di Tiziano non vi ricorda la Venere dormiente di Giorgione??????? Sono poche le differenze, come l'ambientazione, questa, a vedere dai bauli veneziani sembra cha sia in una stanza a Venezia, l'altra invece in mezzo alla campagna.
Ma la differenza maggiore secondo me sta nel fatto che mentre quella Giorgione è inconsapevole del fatto che è bella ed è osservata, perrchè sta dormedo; quella di Tiziano invece è fin troppo consapevole di essere guardata ed è anche fiera della sua bellezza e in particolare di mostrarla così spudoratamente, come se fosse una prostituta, gli unici elementi che ci distolgono dal giudizio di prostituta sono i fiori, simbolo di verginità, che lei delicatamente tiene nella mano destra e, il cane che è un simbolo di fedeltà, forse verso suo marito.





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